Okay, sluts! It’s time to talk about some gay shit. The topic of “gay icons” started brewing in our minds after our dear acquaintance Jasun Mark (of Gay Daily Hot fame) took a break from posting naked porn stars to write a piece entitled “Judy Garland is no longer considered a ‘Gay Icon’. And that’s a good thing.”
We briefly debated this topic on Twitter. Jasun’s argument is that Judy Garland is no longer relevant to today’s generation of gay men, thereby eliminating her status as a “gay icon”. However, in my opinion, the idea of a gay icon is deeply routed within the history of our culture (if we can even still call it a culture). Once you’re a gay icon, you don’t stop being a gay icon. You’ve earned it.
Now, here’s where my thought process gets tricky. I’m extremely skeptical about whether there’s such a thing as a modern-day gay icon. Just because a bunch of dudes who suck dick enjoy Lady Gaga and Katy Perry, does that necessarily make them “gay icons”? What qualifies a gay icon? Is Judy Garland no longer a gay icon, or is the very idea of a gay icon outdated within our “community”?
These are my questions! You are free to discuss them. Alternatively, you could just roll your eyes and ignore me… Or you could just say you lean towards Jasun’s priceless gem of an answer—“My gay icon is my dick”. ::sigh:: Truer words have never been spoken.
UPDATE: Apparently I missed this article. Oops.
– Dewitt
I agree. Once you’ve obtained the status of gay icon, you never lose it just because the younger generation does not embrace the icon as much as prior generations did. As far as the issue of whether we still need gay icons, the answer is yes — for the time being. As long as we do not have equal rights, as long as we are marginalized and as long as we are treated differently, gay icons — those awesome, talented people who are tremendous allies — are necessary.
I had a long Facebook conversation after the Times/Garland piece appeared about just these questions. Of course, there are still celebrities around which some gay men flock and to which some gay men look for affirmation and inspiration. No gay icon or diva has ever had universal appeal, of course. And often icons identify generational gaps, but they can cross these as well. (I’ve always adored Garland, but don’t get Liza; I grew up in the Madonna generation, and have always liked Cher. Brittany and Gaga leave me cold.) The most interesting thing, however, is that the affect or emotional charge of the diva has altered. Garland was a tragic figure, Madonna trangressive and empowered, Gaga . . . I’m not sure. What is gained and lost by shifting from tragedy to transgressiveness as our organizing political affect? Why would a singer like Garland not work today? Or, is part of the fascination around Adele the way that she brings mourning and sorrow into our midst? Do Gaga and “It Gets Better” make us refuse pain in a particular way, force us to keep a stiff upper lip–and what is the cost of that?
how dare you put that picture next to judy garland, the other one WILL never be more than TRAILER-TRASH in my eyes…..i mean it walked BAREfoot into a PUBLIC TOILET………ewwwwwwwwwwwww
Every generation has their own gay icons. I also fall under the category of the Madonna era, but still recognize the Lizas, Barbaras, and Judys who have shaped the generations before mine. My issue with the whole gay icon status is the intent of the “icon”. If the artist, like GaGa, goes out and marches in gay rights parades then I do consider them to be a FUTURE icon. As far as courting the gay audience just for profit or notoriety, then no. People like Cher, Tina Turner, and Bette Midler are adored by members of the gay community for being survivors in some capacity whether through career survival or personal struggles. It’s up to each person to have their own icon and identify with some individual aspect of that person’s history for some sort of inspiration or h0pe. To create a divide with such an argument as an icon not existing is just another reason for our community to become segmented which is what those groups opposed to us absolutely love to do. We need to always come together and not let petty arguments distract us from the real fight of equality.
Janet Jackson is and will always be my gay icon. I imagine the same can be said for many Madonna fans. Cyndi Lauper is also noteworthy. I’m not a Gaga fan, but I would say she’s a gay icon-in-training.
So all gay icons are pop divas? I wasn’t aware. And I find that troubling. What about men like Elton John (okay, arguably a pop diva) or Rock Hudson? Freddy Mercury? James Dean? David Bowie? Hell, Neil Patrick Harris. Aren’t some gay icons also politicians or athletes? Aren’t men like Abraham Lincoln, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, and Saint Sebastian gay icons? Two of those men don’t even have a direct connection with the gay community, let alone did they speak out for LGBT rights. Isn’t being a gay icon more than just being a gay ally/advocate? And in some cases it has nothing to do with whether or not you advocated for the LGBT community. I agree with you that once you’ve become a gay icon, you don’t lose that status just because the younger generations doesn’t necessarily identify with you anymore. But I think the real question isn’t whether we have or need gay icons. It should be: what exactly is a gay icon? If all it takes is to be a celebrity who speaks up for LGBT rights, then we don’t need gay icons. Being an advocate for equal rights is great, but I’d argue that being a true gay icon goes beyond that. Icons are people who embody, represent, empower, transgress, and/or speak to aspects of our communities and experiences. They can be people who are ahead of their time or even ours. There should be a much deeper level and greater potency to the status of icon than simply your politics. Judy Garland became an icon not because she said “yay gay people,” but because her life seemed to echo the lives of many gay men at the time. James Dean became an icon because his brand of masculinity and machismo was something lesbians and gays sought to emulate and desire. And in terms of both Garland and Dean their transgressive identities struck deep cords within the community.
KYLIE MINOGUE, LADY GAGA, and to a lesser extent Madonna.
They are THE gay icons… kylie walks judy liza and barbra into the ground
why do all you old bastards rant on about judy and not respect gaga pisses over her in talent, gaga is incredibly much more talented than judy, and gaga DOES SOMETHING GOOD FOR US – SHE CAMPAIGNS FOR US, you americans, GAGA is THE single reason for DADT being repealed.
That article was really interesting and informative. Have you guys given up on the idea of user-contributed articles? I’m sure some of your members (less inclined to roll their eyes at cock-less posts or snark at barefoot Britney) would love to write something thoughtful and be featured.
I agree with blueyedudenok in that loads of my generation’s popstars give lip-service to the gays, since we seem to have some (?) mainstream taste-making ability, but I’d argue that Gaga, Kylie, Kathy Griffin & co walk the walk as well as talking that talk Riri-style. I don’t know what makes somebody iconic, but I think those ladies (and lots of gents, I’m sure) give babygays hope and a feeling of acceptance that’s very important, whether through their art / entertainment or their public opinions or campaigning.
PS: “it walked barefoot in a public toilet” ?! Isn’t that a little close to “it sticks its dick in an ass” for comfort? Sigh.
I’m all for gay icons; from yesterday (Judy/Liza/Barbra) to today (Kylie/Madonna/Lady Gaga) But don’t you DARE add Kim Kardashian or Katy Perry to this list, or I will have to come after you. . . jk! (NOT!)
Gaga is the SINGLE reason for DADT being repealed? Um, no. That’s ridiculous. Let’s think about a concerted legal, political, judicial effort that included thousands soldiers, activists and lawyers. Let’s not overestimate the value of pop music. I wouldn’t say that Gaga is talented, but that her music doesn’t resonate with me. Although I do think she’s incredibly interesting as an interview subject . . . more thoughtful as a person than a singer (i.e., the reverse of Madonna).
Gaga is the single reason for DADT being repealed? How about I was in the Navy and campaigned every day for it? How about the tons of other gay or friendly military members that also campaigned for it daily? Gaga didn’t until it became the popular thing.. I don’t doubt she cares.. I’m sure she does.. but she wasn’t campaigning from the beginning. And how about the congressmen that joined office with that as one of their main goals… those that were on the phones all day and night.. those that were on their feet all day and night? You give Gaga way too much credit…
She did a wonderful thing, adding her voice to the MANY!.. But don’t get it twisted…
I agree with the already stated opinions that once you are a gay icon, you don’t lose it. I feel if you promote being true to yourself, whether it be gay, straight, black, white, etc. — you are a role model/icon. If you promote equal rights, are possibly gay or just take people as they are and live within the gay world or close to it.. you could be a gay icon…. modern day gay icons? Hmm.. I hate saying it, but Lady Gaga would rank up there. I am definitely all for them! And I definitely hold true many of the “elite” gay icons — Barbra, Cher, Judy, Liza, etc. I would also consider Kylie Minogue a gay icon. She’s fucking fierce! And ten times better than Lady Gaga. LOL!
I have to say, by and large, I am very impressed with the thoughtfulness and quality of these comments! It’s nice to see comments where the superficial and snarky are left behind.
I agree with Tucker. Why are only divas/females considered gay icons? There are many gay men out there who consider themselves successful in life and act completely masculine and look for that quality to idolize in other men. Why would I personally want to relate myself with Lady Gaga or Judy Garland, or as a queen or a diva? Given that there are all breeds of gay guys, but not everyone falls under the category that was set up in the opening topic, which I personally feel in today’s age is extremely outdated for epitomizing all gay men. Why isn’t Obama (coming from a republican even) an icon for taking a step in abolishing DADT?
I feel like this topic is too stereotypical of the gay men who are out and flamboyant about it (and good for you if that’s your thing), instead of focusing more on our ideals, hopes, and dreams as a facet of American society.
What ever blows you skirt up…and there are a lot of gals that deserve our praise. Judy Garland to me is one of the greatest entertainers of the 20th Century. She could work an audience and hold it in the palm of her hand. Not to mention a voice that could make you laugh and break your heart. When that gal sings THE MAN THAT GOT AWAY….you LIVE it with her. JUDY FOREVER.
I’m of the younger generation and I don’t really think there are “gay icons” that’s it. The end.
I don’t get the whole icon thing. Isn’t it just a diva? What have any of these women done for gays? If anything doesn’t it reinforce a stereotype. Every major female singer has a large gay following from Cher to Rihanna. Too bad more males don’t embrace their gay audiences.
janet jackson is my gay icon. She has performed for her gay fans, donated proceeds to AIDS charities, an ambassador for GLAAD, done songs about homophibia and friends dying from AIDS. She cares and shows it….
Right on 🙂
I agree that gay icons do not die.
That’s like saying Harriet Tubman wouldn’t have been civil rights icon during the 60s (I’m sorry if this analogy seems over-exaggerated).
Judy is history for sure, but so are the gays that came before. Those two things are associated heavily. To forget an old gay icon is to forget a part of the gays of yesteryear, which is a damn shame.
As for gay icons today? Hell yeah there are. Gaga is at the top I’d say (just out of popularity). She stands by gays and is a ‘fierce bitch’ as some would say. I think that’s the puts her, as well as many others, up there at least.
Good and thoughtful article, Dewitt. It’d be cool to see more like this from you two 🙂
Gay icons nowadays are of the out and proud or supportive variety…they’ve evolved. There’s still the hot mess ikon, but those gals are just part of the family.
Gay icons to me are more Martina, cindi Lauder and Hillary Clinton.
Ps, I’m all for equality, but, once we achieve it, aren’t we just another Borg?
Um… That wasn’t quite my argument, Dewitt. My post was more about how Judy Garland was an icon in the gay community for decades because of how the AIDS crisis affected our community and it’s cultural evolution.
She may be a gay icon to some but you poll 50 gay men under 35 and ask them I they even HAVE a gay icon. Few will say Judy Garland. They may be fans but it’s no longer just assumed that all gay men love Judy Garland.
mariah carey, madonna and kylie are icons, nicki manaj , katy perry, lady gaga and jessie j are potential future icons, and i dont know what the hell is going on with britney, wonder if she does lol thsii is no an exclusive list there are so many other classics like cindi lauper, laiza manelli …
After reading the above comments, I feel the only gay icon that deserved the
title has passed away…
Dame Elizabeth Taylor
🙁
I also want to agree with Tucker that I think men can be gay icons as well as women. I don’t think we should restrict it to just women. I may love the movies of Elizabeth Taylor and the music of Cher, but it’s men such as Walt Whitman and E.M. Forster and Ramon Novarro and James Baldwin and Luchino Visconti and Larry Kramer and Neil Patrick Harris and, yes, even Erik Rhodes and Dean Monroe who inspire me.
How does a legend ever become an unlegend. Judy Garland is very relevant to the foundation of todays rights that we have. Are we forgetting stonewall. Was a time where we had to have underground clubs/bars and the cops just LOVED comming into those places and making us a public display and completely demonizing and dehumanising us. When Judy Garland died, gays were in deep mmourning, and the cops picked this particular day to pull their usual shit and raid stonewall. And as we know, things would be very different if not for stonewall. The gays at stonewall decided, oh no bitches, not today, and so history was made. Judy will ALWAYS be an icon and inspiration to what we now have. Now, what did Joan Crawford really do? She was a hot mess that hated wired hangars and we related, so she simply was revered for being a fuckin nut. Bette worked in a gay bathhouse before becoming famous. I could go on, but I will never discredit these people. So, today, just because one wears a meat dress or steps barefoot in an outhouse does not make them an icon. But, i will always respect someone who proclaims their respect for us. Even if they are not famous. Madonna was a modern icon of her open love and respect for us, so keep her in the league. Gay men to each other can be very difficult, but I love my brothers and sisters even so.
the Little Monsters will hunt you down and CUT you where you stand … I agree with everything you’ve said here…though I would go further to say that Laga is about 30 years away from realizing her talent …
Dewitt is MY gay icon …
…now answer my question on twitter!
XD
I don’t really have an “icon”, though I love Cher, Bette, (older music)Madonna, Cyndi, Gaga, etc. But, to mention that no talent little bitch Katy Perry on the same page as any of these other (except Nicki Minaj) artists infuriates me. I wouldn’t piss on her if she was on fire.
That story is such a pile of horseshit and it’s based on a homophobic writer from the Village Voice slagging off the gay community, saying that the gays were rioting because Judy Garland died. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Judy Garland. Nothing.
Sorry for misrepresenting your opinion! Your original post was actually quite thoughtful and challenged me. I was mostly just referring to our discussion on Twitter.
Erik Rhodes inspires you… ?
Not judging. I just need more elaboration.
its fact she is the only person who actively and vocally campaigned HARD against it from the entertainment community. dont undermine our celeb supporters idiot
how u can say she is not talented too shows you are an imbecile…
youre gonna be hit by the monster wrath which hunts down and destroys all who do not comply
reading this makes me realise i hate most people. youre all so retarded and worthless!!! lol
this planet would be so much better without our shite species wouldnt it!!!
I’ve always been a big fan of the classic soap opera Dark Shadows. I watched it during its entire run from 1966-1971. I’m still a big fan. Some now say it’s a “gay icon” soap because of the character of the vampire Barnabas Collins. He was a man (or whatever, since he was an on-again, off-again vampire) with a secret he had to keep in a closet, and gay boys (like me) identified with that while we were growing up. I constest that. I never associated Barnabas and his secret with me being gay. I simply always liked the horror genre and I didn’t care about who kept a closeted secret within it. I liked the spookiness, the horror, the gore. It’s fun.
So I really don’t get it with “gay icons.” I also enjoyed watching The Wizard of Oz as a child, every year, on TV growing up. It didn’t have any impact upon my gayness as a child. It was simply a wonderful, classic piece of cinematic art. I also have always enjoyed the 1953 classic version of The War of the Worlds. Does that mean that I associated the invading Martians with being gay?
By the way, the latest “revival” of Dark Shadows comes out on May 11 at the theaters, with Johnny Depp playing the character of Barnabas Collins. I can’t wait to see it. But I also think that Depp, who appears perfect as Barnabas Collins, is one of the most least attractive men out there.
Trkfck, I have to let you know that you need to check your history. Judy Garland’s death was the beginning of the Gay Movement as we know it. Judy’s death was what gave the people of Stonewall the straw that broke the backs of gays in 1969. You might have no idea of what life was like for a gay man before then, but rest assured, we would not be where we are today had the Stonewall Riots not taken place.
My oh my… you’re a special one, aren’t you?
Erik inspires because a) he’s über butch and a big ole bottom who can even take a fist up his ass and b) he lives his life without apologies — I don’t often agree with his choices — but he doesn’t give a shit. I find that both appalling and appealing at the same time.
Dude, it was pure coincidence. I suggest you look back at the history. In the countless accounts of the Stonewall riots, not a single participant mentioned the death of Judy Garland, either as a motivating factor or even in passing.
I think from reading these comments that most need to get an education in spelling before spouting off such negativity!!! Judy Garland WILL ALWAYS be THE ORIGINAL gay icon!!! Forever. End Of Story!!!