We know, we know! You’re sick of hearing about Lady Gaga. Her name’s already been mentioned in two of today’s posts, so it’s probably overkill to even broach this topic. However, if we’ve learned anything in the past, there are two things Manhunt Daily readers love to discuss–Lady Gaga and racism. What happens when the two collide?
The pop diva has been criticized for her usage of the words “chola” and “orient” on her latest single “Born This Way”. The controversy began brewing as soon as the lyrics were released, before the general public heard the song. Here’s an excerpt from the original piece by Newsblaze‘s Robert Paul Reyes:
“Are Latinos supposed to be grateful that a white superstar, born of privilege, included a racist shout out to our community? Not all Latino ladies are ‘cholas’ in the barrio, some of them are teachers, writers, engineers and nurses and doctors.”
What are your thoughts on this matter? Is this lyrical element offensive to the Latino and Asian communities? And for those of you who would rather not go down that road, here’s a whole other question–do you consider “Born This Way” a gay anthem? Why or why not?
– Dewitt
To watch Lady Gaga’s performance at the 2011 Grammy Awards, follow the JUMP:
Really hate this song… it sounds like a mix between the old “queer eye for the straight guy” theme tune and express yourself.
just a really bad song.
Perfect description Matt, you’re absolutely right.
If we are going to talk about Lady Gaga, then we should discuss the homophobic lyrics in Dr Dre and Eminem’s performance at the Grammys!
Let me start by saying I enjoy most of Lady Gaga’s music, but am not a devoted fan. I think I can look at her stuff more objectively than a rabid “Little Monster” or a Lady Gaga hater.
To answer the 2nd question first, I think it’s Lady Gaga trying too hard to MAKE it a gay anthem. Most so called “gay anthems’ weren’t written specifically with the gay community in mind, but rather, were adopted by the community in response to the lyrics in those songs. Additionally, most artists who do write songs specifically for or about the gay community don’t do it to pander to gay people. It’s an okay song that does sound a lot like an updated Madonna production.
To answer the second question, I don’t think she’s intentionally racist, but ‘Oriental’ is a fairly antiquated term, and is seen as racist by most people inside Asian communities. Chola/cholo is seen much the same way in Latino communities. I see it as similar to someone calling a gay man a fag or a lesbian a dyke. Gay men and lesbians may use those terms among themselves, and don’t consider it offensive, but when it comes from someone outside those groups, it’s usually used offensively.
Personally, I think she just needed something that rhymed or had enough syllables in it to match the flow of the lyrics or rhythm.
I already posted my comment in the Aural thread but it’s pretty simplistic and Javier touched on most of it.
I think Gaga just realizes that society has so many labels (including slurs and racial remarks) and she personally is tired of it all. After all, society has quite a few labels for her.
From my point of view, she mentioned the labels only to say, “Hey, society may have labeled you as x and you may have even had slurs thrown at you in your lifetime…but you, me, and everyone else are still human and we should see each other only as such.”
My explanation isn’t quite articulate enough but I doubt Gaga intended prejudice or racism in a track that openly accepts LGBT and black and white individuals. Could she have used something else in her lyrics? Yeah.
Didn’t love it first hearing,but it sounds like it’ll grow on me.
As for the language, I’m eurasian and got teased a bit for not being fully white, but it never got serious and I got used to racial banter (NOT insults). I even use the equivalent of “fag” in my own language when I want to have a private conversation with a friend from my country.
EVERYONE is “Born this/that way” whatever way that they are. My ego wants me to believe that I have a choice as to what I am but, in reality/truth, I was born who I am just like everyone else is born who they are. And, the “Experience is the meaning of life”.
Wow, that was DEEP ! lol
😉 Peace
F-R-E-E-D-U-M-B of speech. enough already with the cleansing of America….what ‘s next? Mark Twain? lol
I’m asian and I don’t think it’s offensive at all.. and yeah this song grew on me after a few times hearing it 🙂 Pretty good song. Of course some people will hate it for whatever reasons they can think of, the gay community just loves hating I guess, maybe it’s out of their own insecurities and they could pretend to feel slightly better about themselves by putting others down. Well done hypocrits. Esp when people who make millions a year are standing up for you and risking their str8 portion of the market by producing a gay anthem.
As usual people perpetuating hate over a single word usage. Get over it… this is the 21 century.
Most people don’t even know Cholo wasn’t really used towards Latin/Hispanics, but created by them. But used towards a mix of Native American tribes. It was adopted later and used to describe males/females of a certain dress style of the Latin persuasion. Then eventually adopted by Latin/Hispanic teenage gang members. All because one group adopt the term doesn’t make it racist at all. I, myself, Native American doesn’t find it the least bit racist and it was originally a slur against my kind. I say get over it.
As to the use of Orient. It’s most Asian cultures that find themselves to proud to be grouped with others Asian Cultures that find this racist. Imagine if you will all the European Cultures were pissed that you called them European instead of English, Scottish, Dutch… Same Can be said about using the terms Soviets, Pacific Islanders, South Americans…These words are used to express a zone or grouping of countries that have similar culture, religion, or rule. People from that zone would in turn be called Orient or Oriental.
And She has every right to use any word she wants too… Or shall we get into some of the words that rappers and other extreme music groups use in their lyrics.
Anyone remember the old Disco song “There But For the Grace of God Go I” by Machine.
as quoted “no blacks, no gays, no jews” but it was commonly played at underground house clubs (gay clubs of the disco age)
So all you gays trying to get on the racist bandwagon… get over yourself please!
Chola(o), Cholita(o), Negro(a), Negrito(a) etc can be and are terms of endearment in Southamerica. They could be also bad terms but usually when someone is mad or fighting or insulting. Lady Gaga is just stating something. That guy should book a week-long trip to Southamerica (Maybe he doesn’t know that there are more countries south of Mexico and even that the Guyanas exist. There are hundreds of songs in Spanish that say CHOLA, CHOLITA, NEGRA, NEGRITA in their lyrics and we do not find them offensive. This guy just wants attention that is it.
Oh please people…
Don’t you have nothing to do? I don’t see recist at all..in my country I can call someone “Pretinha” ( little back ) just a sweety way.
And at least she’s doing something that Madonna started few years ago..she will continue to fight for your rights.
God bless us!
a talentless slag whose only appeal is to the morons that listen to this so called music
”Are Latinos supposed to be grateful that a white superstar, born of privilege, included a racist shout out to our community?”
Are the gay community supposed to be grateful that this straight woman feels the need to advocate gay rights at every fucking opportunity??
touting your own work as a ‘gay anthem’ , which is blatantly a madonna rip off is not only capitalizing off the gays but also condescending and downright poor!! Nevermind the racism!!
Maybe you should get off your high horse and quit preaching to people? Everyone who’s posted so far has simply said that some people (especially among the groups they’re referring to) do find those terms offensive, but that they don’t think Lady Gaga was purposely trying to be racist or offensive by using them. Again, I just think she used the terms to make the song rhyme or fit the lyrics to the beat.
People get too bent out of shape with words. They are words and don’t have any power until we give them such. If we spent half the time working on society as we do complaining about it, we’d all be getting married and things would be better. We have to learn to stand together, not tear one another down or look for excuses to blame others for your misfortune. You make your own destiny. Not words.
I’m just curious, since you use the words Latin & Hispanic in congruance, do you know the difference between the two words? They aren’t the same thing, you know, right ?
And, Oriental & Asian aren’t the same thing, either. Oriental is used to describe ‘objects/things’ of Asian origin; Asian is used to describe ‘people’ of a race/continent, right ? 😉
But, Europeans don’t really mind being called Europeans no matter what country they come from (except maybe the British/Irish/Scottish with their noses in the air;-)lol
Do citizens of the U.S.A. object to being called North Americans? Etc, etc. etc.
And, finally, I was born in the U.S.A. so, doesn’t that make me Native American ? LOL
I say, “Much Ado About Nothing ” 😉
that is not cool, we latinos are not lumped like gravy.. love you Gaga but need to get to know your latino monsters a bit better…but I was too busy dancing to pay attention to lyrics.
Yes it is most definitely racist, as well as being sexist and homophobic. So many of these so called gay friendly celebrities (Madonna, Kathy Griffin, and Gaga) are more using gays to further their own careers than they are helping move the gay agenda through society.
And the melody of this song is also definitely a rip off of Madonna’s Express Yourself. It’s pretty friggin’ obvious.
How is it racist, when the content to the song is saying, No matter gay, straight or bi
Lesbian, transgendered life,I’m on the right track, baby,I was born to survive,No matter black, white or beige,Chola or orient made
I’m on the right track, baby,I was born to be brave???? she obviously trying to be inclusive or everyone on the planet, to say we are ALL normal, and here you are picking it and dissecting it to bits, and then the haters off her shesh, no wonder the world’s a mess!
Are you dumb? “Orient” is used to describe things not people.
Wow, people can be so dramatic!
I don’t give a fat fuck….everybody has to nit pick everything and be so God Damn PC. STOP IT. Grow some balls. If you don’t like the song…DON’T BUY IT.,..DON’T LISTEN…it will go away very quickly.
Gaga’s lyrics tend to be more on the artistic side, and I honestly think she was just trying to use words that weren’t as generic as “Asian” or “Latino.” “Oriental” and “cholo” have a little bit more cultural connotation and definitive imagery, even though they might be outdated or too specific for a whole community. She probably would’ve used different words for “black” and “white” too, but African/European-American both have way too many syllables, and every other slang word that is shorter really is too politically charged. I mean, the song is all about celebrating what makes you different; if you’re upset because she didn’t use the word you choose to describe yourself, then I think you’ve missed the point. “Born This Way” was not written to be used on the census form.
To be fair, Elton John was the one who called it the next gay anthem, not Gaga. She has always maintained that BTW was written for and inspired by her fans, not exclusively the gays. MTV.com had a great article that basically said “Gaga already is a gay icon and anything she puts out is going to be the next gay anthem, whether she says it is or not.” This is not to suggest that she didn’t play her part in the excessive hype, but on that note, the hype was completely inevitable. Her first new single in a year after having seven consecutive chart-topping hits? Literally everyone was expecting only the best, but since everyone is different, then logically this song was bound to rub some people the wrong way.
To get personal, I happen to love this song even though a lot of my friends hate it, and that’s fine. It’s not going to stop me from dancing to it during Pride or anywhere else in between. I don’t really care for Britney’s song, but that doesn’t mean I’m writing her off or accusing her of force-feeding me shitty music. As with any performer, Gaga is only what you make of her — you’re free to choose whether you see a Madonna-copycat racist attention whore or a creative musical talent who is shaping Western pop culture with remarkable skill, but if you end up choosing the former, just got to the bar and refresh your drink when the song comes on and let the rest of us have our moment.
@ DeeCue, Woody
yes I know the Differences. As most people associate those things together. Since Hispanic are a group of people from Iberian Peninsula, however it is commonly used to refer to people from Spain. Latino associated to a Latin American ALSO associated with a Hispanic American. Where one can be Latino… but not Hispanic. But if one is Hispanic they are Latino.
And saying Eso and Esa in Spanish it is “That” but a common term of “familiarity” among Mexicans.
People have always used “objectifying” terms in basis of familiarity with person. Its all Labels. again GET OVER IT.
And with the term… Orient… doesn’t just mean an object … it means…. in generalization… “From the East” usually in association with Europe aka Asia. People being offended by a metonym is just as silly as being upset that someone uses the word “gay” to mean foolish, stupid, crazy. Shot I even know a few people that get pissed being called Asian again in relation to being grouped with people they think they are better than. In the Orient that is what it all boils down to. You never group people of a lesser class with a higher class. Never group the Honorless with the Honored. I know a lot of the Western Cultures.
So would you be offended by being called a Westerner instead of being called American? That is just what it is saying Orient or Oriental.
@Javier: I am just tired of everything everyone says being turned into a OMG RACIST comment. SOOOOOOOO over it. It is tiring. We will never move forward if people have problem with labels.
As qouted by John Lennon’s “Imagine”
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
I liked her performance, made me like the song a tad bit more. Her body was in great shape, nice abs. There isn’t ANYTHING under the sun now that doesn’t draw criticism.
That’s what I said ! lol
Mjj : You’re right about that 😉
Elton John doesn’t speak for anyone other than himself. He’s NOT the voice of the Gay community! Goodness gracious, NO! LOL
GEEZ ! Your definition or Orient/al is WRONG ! Go get a dictionary !!
And, just so you STOP giving out mis-information :
The word Hispanic comes from the part-Latin/Spanish – part-native/aboriginal people of HISPANOLA in the CARIBBEAN ! The word Hispanic is now used for anyone who is part European-Latin and anything else including Black, Asian, Native and/or Aboriginal !
And, Finally The ORIGINAL Latins are the ITALIANS/Romans who created the language & culture in the first place ! Now, TRUE Latins are considered to be Italians, Spaniards, Portugese & the French.
Where did you learn, the definitions of Orient/al &, where Latins & Hispanics come from ? Geez, will your ignorance ever stop, LOL !
You need to get some more education before you start trying to educate anyone else PLEASE !!!!
All the best dude but,
PLEASE STOP IT ! LOL
You’re not even translating Spanish/Mexican accurately (eso/esa?) lol ! Go to : freetranslation.com when you need the accurate translation for a word. You can translate there by, language AND, country, dialects !
Dr.Dre is probalylike most of his black brothers, on the DL, and Eminem is so Homophobic that he must be covering up something. Don’t forget the DL bro hanging on Bieber boy all night.
Learn to wiki… Hispanola is not the only area associated with the term Hispanic
I have 5 years of Spanish Classes as being one who grew up in in texas. I know what Eso and Esa translate to…
But, eso & esa don’t have anything to do with racism or prejudice !
The a & o are changed depending on the sex-designation of what you are talking about.
STOP ALREADY, LOL
Bye
Learned @ Wiki ? FOTFLOL,
I said it’s where the term originated. It doesn’t have anything to do with Iberia in Spain, GEEZ!
And, I said it NOW pertains to anyone who is part Latin & anything else (Some Filipinos are Hispanic) !
“Are Latinos supposed to be grateful that a white superstar, born of privilege, included a racist shout out to our community? Not all Latino ladies are ‘cholas’ in the barrio, some of them are teachers, writers, engineers and nurses and doctors.”
Uh, Lady Gaga is weird.
Latino teachers, writers, engineers, nurses and doctors are not.
They’re normal.
The song is for weird people. A Chola from the barrio feels like an outcast and the song is for them.
Buddha was from a privileged family. Does that mean he didn’t have a great deal of insight? No.
Jesus was from an impoverished family. Does that mean wealthy people shouldn’t listen to what he has to say because he comes a different economic class? No.
I’m not a huge fan of the song, but using a slur to empower is hardly racist.
Your a dumbass.
According to all the resources I have checked; cholo/a : means ‘dark-skinned’ 😉
I don’t really care if it’s racist. I feel like if a 12 year old kid who was struggling with depression about a variety of topics could relate to this song and feel very empowered by it.
don’t people have other things to be concerned about ?? this is silly , please , who cares . it’s just a song !
I love you just for this comment lol
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Toph.
she was trying to appeal to everyone, but ended up offending certain groups.
imagine it’s as if she sang:
“No matter straight, FAGGOT or bi, lesbian… etc..”
she makes mistakes. she is also trying to hard. at least she was. right now it seems to me that she is seeking controversy to sell records. First she copies Madonna song, then she thanks Whitney Houston for inspiring her to write that song. I’m disappointed in her.
Another example of a person looking to start trouble where there is not any to begin with. But Robert Paul Reyes is right, not all Latino women in the barrio are cholas; some are also welfare mothers, illegal aliens, gang bangers, drug addicts and prostitutes. This guy really has nothing better to do than accuse Lady Gaga of being a racist?
EMMDEE: You hit the nail on the head. Thank You!!!!
The way I interpreted it, the song is using those terms exactly because they are use to offend and belittle certain groups. Words should be evaluated in the context they are used. And the whole ‘Express Yourself’ so-called scandal is the same. In the context of the song, the similarity is to evoke both the musical style of the late 80s and the ideas touched on in’Express Yourself’. I mean, Alejandro pretty much is a ‘ripoff’ of every Ace of Base song there is. Where was the outrage?
Is all this fuss about the word CHOLA in it?
I don’t think that represents Latin people at all, but at least she include every possible race in the spectrum because this song is about love and acceptance. No matter how good or bad it is, there is a message and yes, she’s copying Madonna because one day in 20 years someone will copy Gaga and use her as inspiration. Just a matter of history repeating itself. So get over the drama and hit the dancefloor. Gaga’s music is to make us happy and to dance. Nothing more, nothing less.
There was WAY too much hype for it. It really isn’t a good song… it also feels kind of preachy… like I should be going “Aaaamen, sista! Testify!!” After each verse…
Buuuut, you’re stereotypical fags and other fan base will still eat it all up, and she’ll still make masses of money.
thank you, I think people need to get over it. Using this thread to make themselves look smarter than someone else instead of discussing the topic at hand. Who cares?
thank you Bruno!
It uses racist language, but I think that’s part of the message.
No matter what race you are or what people call you, you know what you are deep down. We should be proud of that. This makes it easy to dismiss any colloquialisms that have been spun into defamatory language.
And I don’t think it is a gay anthem because it speaks to everyone, but that’s what it’ll become.
Oh there was plenty of outrage from the Ace of Base fans. 😛
I agree with your sentiment. I think she used these words EXACTLY because they offend. In the context of the sentence, she is saying that it doesn’t matter WHAT you are: she lists gender types, sexual orientations, and race/ethnicities. The entire theme of the piece is the acknowledgment that we do not choose many of the things we are labeled with at birth. =)
I was trying to figure out how to put that in my first response but you said it much better! Too much offense taken over words when the context of the song explicitly states how those words are meant to be interpreted.
Overall, a case of mass ignorance.
@Toph
This is the most intelligent comment posted so far.
It seems that every time someone support equality whether is gender, race, faith etc we become our own enemy to slow them down. Instead of us applauding her hard work for the cause and appreciate her talent, we are the one backstabbing here.
Gaga’s a brilliant business woman who has had some rather catchy songs, and a bit of garbage.
Most people hate her for being like Madonna. Pfft, well, fuck Madonna, her times over.
That said, I hate this song, it sounds too generic.
I am Mexican and I do not find it offensive at all, I mean we are not all cholos, but for the ones who are and dress up in that fashion I don’t think is offensive either since it is a matter of choice.
With stupidity like the above one can see that its the gay community that causes its own racism both internally and externally. However, this does not include the few intelligent people who I do not need to point out because it is pretty obvious who they are.